hello I have some concerns and maybe some of you I have opinions about it …
first it’s about the future of babylonjs, in competition with game engines like unity that can export to webgl what advantages and disadvantages it could have from each other …
And the second is the future of web browsers how much useful life they will have and how to compete between browser games vs mobile games or new games in the cloud such as Google Stadia or Apple Arcade?
o.O
I often use “-unity” to get useful google searches ;p
I like the unity asset store,
but the webgl they export is rubbish, unless you use the babylon exporter 
I doubt browsers are going anywhere in the near future, if ever.
and a webgl game/app can also be packed into a mobile or native app.
Your topic should read browsers vs. apple arcade vs. google stadia. Not babylon.js. The facts are that these all rely on the speed of the GPU, which is a constant in devices regardless of which platform you are using. Here’s why I choose WebGL in browsers; because it is not controlled by one company who in history will always abandon a platform in time. The babylon.js framework has thousands of developers writing for the framework and this will only continue to grow over time.
I’m personally a firm believer in online apps and this is where I see the future. But right now, you’re going to make allot more money writing games for a licensed platform. But it’s not always about money, is it?
Galen
We see future on the web as well. Because of direct access to the world without a distributor.
If done right - imagine webplatform more popular than netflix (to be honest). How?
We try Cinematic Hero Journey.
Web Entertainment is a tumbler-lock to the world, not yet decoded.
And we don’t do it for the money.
We do it for the ART of expressing a MORE positive statement to humanity.
Which is the secret-sauce lost in the silos.
On WebPlatform ~ Re-imagine-everything.
Browsers currently win in the niche of immediate accessibility to an experience, mostly due to being installed everywhere and loading things up quickly. That’s not the only reason to make a browser game, and I’ve played plenty of browser games that load slowly, but it is one of the plain business areas where it comes up superior. There’s no question that making a game in javascript (regardless of framework/engine) is more work than making a similar game in the more polished engines like godot, game maker, or unity (maybe unreal too? haven’t tried it). I’m currently sitting on a javascript first person shooter with netcode on par with AAA games (input response time ~7-16 ms), and the whole thing loads in 3-8 seconds. It was developed in 3 months. Nothing that requires an installation can do that at this point.
Will other engines, thanks to asm.js, paired with internet speed improvements eventually provide immediately accessible experiences? It seems like they probably will. Though if they’re just transpiling, technically there will be a more bare-metal way to do the same thing in regular javascript+webgl. Hopefully people continue to make libs that are at the BJS level.
As for things like Stadia… who knows. Similar ideas have struggled in the past. I hope it succeeds this time, at least in the large cities. It’ll probably be ages before things like that are any good for fast games in rural areas.
My 2 cents on Google Stadia is it sounds amazing… if you live in a country with fast reliable internet.
It will most likely flop in my home country (Australia) where streaming Netflix can often be an adventure in waiting for things to buffer. But at least with something like Netflix or webgl games, I can just practice patience and wait for it to download fully and then play uninterrupted, because the files are now all local on my device.
Stadia doesn’t have luxury of buffering, because it needs to be updated in real time to keep up with the game play. Not only that, but unlike netflix, which only needs 24 fps for most movies, Stadia will need to maintain at least 60 fps to be any good in online gaming.
Deep Dive - Stadia and Arcade.
Watch this space.
Both to be released this year. Arcade in fall.
Stadia made with Vulkan. partnered with Unreal/Unity. Arcade, Apple Developer.
Stadia is in the Cloud, with multiple view, cross platform concept - Assassins Creed Odyssey.
"Future of BABYLON ON or IN Stadia and Arcade?
Good question.
Interesting how google will either include or leave out:
PWA, Poly, and Aframe. Also asm.
But Streaming?
Does anyone else feel like we’ve seen this before?
Our business context - does not need streaming.
Wasn’t the web streaming… the whole time? : )
Focus unchanged.
has the “walled garden” upgraded to “fortress”?
Probably - emphasis on streaming is obligatory.
Probably - surprise executive decisions.
PROBABLY MS version using BABYLON as SHOWCASE… would be gr8.
All in all. Seems like an embrace of the web… using tunneling!
For the love… can we please… just embrace the open web… please? Ok? No.
Fragmentation?
Stadia references this… “one place!”. We will see. : )
Cherish brilliant delta-one-liner. 
Surprises in-bound no doubt.
REWRITTEN.
so only on apple.Great discussion so passionate
welcome johnnydel…
How were you or your project helped by this thread?
I am really hoping someone releases a Web Browser on Google Stadia. Then BabylonJS apps can be loaded into Stadia without any modification for Vulkan.
Think like: www.stadiabrowser.com/url/https://www.babylonjs-playground.com/#S6TP3Q
Once that happens BablyonJS sites can run on any device while being optimized for specific powerful hardware.
With things like WebGPU, isn’t Babylon and other platforms like Unity almost reaching a shared limit in how powerful they can be? Because we are hitting the limit of perfect low level GPU optimization? If it is all the same then engines like BabylonJS should be chosen for their style of creation + design features and not for performance reasons. Kind of like how people choose different programming language styles when all major languages are fast on modern hardware and Turing complete.
Facepunch is doing something similar to a 3D browser with Garry’s Mod 2. They are making an entire Sandbox’d software environment that runs around Unreal (or even Source 2) and is made to load content dynamically. They haven’t announced Stadia plans yet but it makes perfect sense for instantly loading multiplayer experiences with thousands of players and simplified netcoding.
I think that would be awesome too.
Here is info drop on Stadia:
I was wrong (above). It happens…
Microsoft and BABYLONJS should build our own private arcade?
heart good idea…
no hearts? lol. guess what…
it is bound to happen. : )
Bad idea! Babylon.js is a open source game engine for writing games using Javascript that anyone anywhere can develop and launch from a browser. As a none gamer, I may be wrong, but I expect products like Google Stadia will be a platform for major game developers to produce commercial games, ie as an alternative to a game box. Now while major game developers can use Babylon.js, BJS is also available for indie developers and for students to cut their 3D game teeth on. I doubt this will happen with Stadia etc.
Developing our own private arcade would be an exclusive operation whereas BJS is inclusive.
I think indie creators and students are the kinds of people Stadia would want making games on their platform. Its exactly how Youtube works. Or think of Soundcloud. A Stadia Indie service that has ‘free’ content or possibly a subscription would be a perfect place for BabylonJS content. But I agree for starting the platform that they might just want to prove that AAA 4k kinda content is viable and economical.
You may well be correct, although it is a lot easier to produce indie videos that will attract many followers than to produce a game that will produce the same number of players. Time will tell.
I would like to see BJS running on as many platforms as possible excluding a private arcade.
Good thoughts.
Redefine to “inclusive” then? : )
BJS niche is BBB, and cannot be AAA? I think we can be AAA. But idk, what is measure?
Seems beside the point (small bit), because if competitors do it - then it “makes business sense”.
And… we end up doing that every time, no?
Anyone smell inevitability? : )
Delta asked “how to get exposure with PWA” a while back. REPORT: no progress on that.
And if BJS/PWA cannot go on Stadia or Arcade… then what?
IDEA GUY - throws up a melon:
Why NOT Microsoft host PWA CLOUD PLATFORM as BABYLON.SHOWCASE???
Precisely to showcase open-source web AAA capabilities.
I know, I know, It’ll never happen as imagined.
And I’m probably WRONG for 10 reasons anyway.
Still fun to try and predict this industry.
Considering…
BABYLON.SHOWCASE … in the cloud, with PWA.
future of bjs is a good question… back to sleep.
: )
