Regarding: https://github.com/BabylonJS/Brand-Toolkit and its license, the Babylon.js Discord staff were wondering if it would be legally eligible to add modifications to the Babylon.js logo. For instance animations, a different color (color transitions too), etc. Or, if it’s allowed, to use the cool animated logo from the introduction that’s in most of the official Babylon.js YouTube channel videos: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UKMroF2n2jM
To quickly summarize the brand toolkit license:
Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
Not much trouble here, as we can always link somewhere officially in the server the brand toolkit, license, etc. I’m no lawyer, but it may not even be necessary? i.e. a Babylon.js Discord using the Babylon.js logo should leave no doubt on where the logo originally originated from…
Here, we may have a problem, as we’re wanting to modify, even if we use a custom Babylon.js logo, although for the official animated Babylon.js logo, it may be legally allowed?
You do not have to comply with the license for elements of the material in the public domain or where your use is permitted by an applicable exception or limitation.
Does Discord count as public domain? Again, I apologize if this is basic knowledge, I’m no lawyer.
@RPaladin, the Babylon.js identity has been trademarked and any use of the identity should follow the examples as set out in the branding guidelines. This is to keep consistency with anything that is branded as Babylon.js which is key to not confusing the customer base. In terms of changing the colors, we don’t have any approved guidelines other than what has been set out for the identity on light or dark themes and some single color variants.
You do not have to comply with the license for elements of the material in the public domain or where your use is permitted by an applicable exception or limitation.
refers to any elements that are included in materials that cannot be covered by the license as they are already covered by a broader license. For example, if we had the Stanford bunny as a part of the repo covered by this license, you would not be restricted using that asset as it’s already in the public domain which is a broader license. But the rest of the material not considered public domain would be under the license listed in the repo. In this case, since the identity is trademarked, it is not in the public domain. I hope this answers your questions. But if you have specific uses that you want to speak about, feel free to reach out and we will see what we can do to facilitate them.
Hello. Thank you for the reply. I have a few more questions then, so that no one accidentally infringes the license.
Because a Discord server is not a game or a digital project where the license can be included with on distribution, would it be enough to simply link the brand toolkit license + repository? For example in a no-posting section, visible to all to see: like the rules channel, etc.
Ultimately, my final questions are:
whether it would be easier to just stick with any assets from the official brand toolkit without modifications. (Proved we link to the license + repository.)
or whether modifications are allowed? (Proved we link to the license + repository.)
or are usage of a 3rd-party logo based on the Babylon.js logo even allowed? (Proved we link to the license + repository.)
@RPaladin, yes, a link back to the brand guidelines in the server would be great so that anyone else wanting access to the assets and guidelines would have them.
To answer your last questions
If you are representing Babylon.js on the server, meaning you want to use branding to reference this engine specifically, it would be best to use the brand assets without modification. This helps to strengthen the recognition of the engine as well as communicate that you are referencing this exact project. In branding, whenever a customer sees a change in packaging or branding, there is an inherent distrust of the product because the customer doesn’t know if it’s the same product they are used to or if something has fundamentally changed about it.
It depends on what modifications you are talking about. If you mean you want to use the logo by itself without the wordmark, that is fine and there are assets for that use. If you mean you want to place the logo over some other image like we do on our YouTube thumbnails with a white border, that is fine. If you mean you want to change the color scheme to green and blue, stretch the proportions of the logo, change the logo into a circle, add type into the logo, or in some way drastically change the appearance of the identity in some way, that would not be allowed.
I’m not sure what you mean by a 3rd-party logo based on the Babylon.js logo. If you are designing a new logo from scratch and basing it on the Babylon.js logo, you are no longer referring to this project. Remember, the Babylon.js identity is a trademark which allows us to distinguish our “goods” from those of competitors. It also applies some form of legal protection from counterfeits and fraud, but mostly we are interested in that distinction of Babylon.js in the WebGL space. If you are creating a logo or identity that is distinctly not the Babylon.js identity, even if it is based on the original identity, you are essentially diluting recognition of the engine as it can cause some confusion created around what is official.
Think of this last part in the terms of someone creating a Babylon.js-inspired web site that has it’s own logo inspired by the Babylon.js identity. Visitors might start connecting the unofficial logo with the positive qualities of Babylon.js. If that site then launches it’s own WebGL engine, there would be confusion about whether it is connected with Babylon.js. If the engine is terrible the Babylon.js brand, through an implied connection, could take a reputational hit as the customer could be confused about what is really Babylon.js.
I’m not implying that this scenario is likely, but it is the reason that most brands are very protective of their identity systems and only approve narrow uses of them. If you want the safest approach, stick to the assets provided in the brand toolkit. If you want to propose something unique, you can reach out to me through a PM and we can speak further about what you are proposing and see if there is any alignment that can be found.
Hi @RPaladin , I’m curious to know what your goals are for your discord server. Generally speaking, I think most Babylon related questions that people have on the internet should come to the Babylon forum here to avoid community fragmentation and to build on the searchable knowledge base that is being created here.
Hello @gabrieljbaker. Good question. Many people on the server have wondered that as well. The truth is, most of the staff at the unofficial Babylon.js Discord direct users to the forums if their questions aren’t answered within a few days, or even to do so if they wish to get more dedicated and professional help. We by no means wish to be a competition of the forums, in fact, we most heartily support the forums openly.
The reason the Discord server exists is simply for those who wish to get help in a more casual setting: not that the forums aren’t casual, it’s a fun, wonderful place to interact with others. The forums are great with helping the community in so many ways. Whether it be actively engaging or coordinating team members to answer specific questions. Mainly, the Discord server is there for any who wish to be there: I don’t believe there really is a good answer as to why some people are on the server and not here on the forums. We cannot read peoples minds, and it would ultimately be rude to ask them on why they do what they do…
Regarding the forums as a hub for all almost all Babylon.js information imaginable, I think it’s safe for me to say that everyone on the server believes the same, but sometimes people cannot find the question to their answer or maybe they lack experience on how to use good search terms…
As for the goals of the server, we really have no mission or message except that to help the awesome Babylon.js community, as well as create a place to socialize for all things related to Babylon.js, as well as ultimately spread Engine/Framework awareness.
FYI, I am not the server owner of the Babylon.js Discord, so the owner may have different plans that they haven’t initially ever shared (From what they have shared in the past, they were previously a Microsoft developer?). I am simply a community staff member who helps maintain the server and community.
Something I’ve wanted to see added to the brand toolkit for a while now is a bumper and/or image assets in the line of “Powered by Babylon.JS ”, and indeed in “Space-Truckers”, I used the brand toolkit logo as a billboard mesh texture.
Powered by Babylon.JS